Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

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AdamOndi
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby AdamOndi » Tue 26 Jul, 2011 01:20 pm

When we were on our way home from the family reunion we went to at the beginning of this month, both kids got sick (vomiting, diarrhea sick) on the way home. That was all kinds of smelly, yucky-ness that necessitated disassembling the car seat and a trip through the washer. The following Sunday, we thought all was well again, until just after we sat down in the pew a couple of minutes before Sacrament Meeting, and BabyLoo emptied her stomach again all over the bench and herself.
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AdamOndi
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby AdamOndi » Tue 26 Jul, 2011 01:40 pm

Ooh, and more recently, our ward called a new Gospel Doctrine teacher a few weeks ago who did a lot of strange things. The first Sunday he taught, he decided not to teach the lesson at all, instead opting for an icebreaker type of game. He then proceeded to explain at the end of the class session that he felt inspired to do that in order to help our ward shed its "reputation as the unfriendly ward." He also encouraged everyone to not seek to take offense at things that are said, yada yada yada.

Then, after several weeks of deviating significantly from (or just plain ignoring) the manual every week, and never once having any of the scriptures in the lessons read in class, the Sunday School president and the Bishopric counselor over the Sunday School took him aside and tried to coach him on teaching better Gospel Doctrine lessons, including the fact that the manual is there for a reason and it should be used. Also, that teachers should focus more on scriptures than they do on random Internet articles containing questionable doctrine and speculation. So last Sunday, the teacher got up and decided he needed to confront the people in the Gospel Doctrine class, talking about how he had heard people were complaining about his teaching style. Then he read some obscure quote from a general authority I have never heard of saying that it would be better if all of the teachers in the Church barely used their class manuals at all. A little later he teared up a little when admonishing the class to not put labels on other people. He ended the class by talking about how he had once asked a temple president if it was okay to pray for Satan in the hopes that he would change his ways because the teacher really lamented the loss of the Third of the Hosts of Heaven who chose to follow Lucifer and rebel against God.

Yeah, it's been an adventure in Gospel Doctrine lately.
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Lady Celtic
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Lady Celtic » Tue 26 Jul, 2011 04:02 pm

If I had a Gospel Doctrine teacher like that, I'd ditch class often. Weekly, even. Yikes.
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Momma Snider
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Tue 26 Jul, 2011 04:41 pm

Kind of scary, actually.

I do hope the temple president told him no, we do not pray for Satan. I don't have any general authority words to back me up, but it seems to me that feeling sympathy for Satan is opening the door to let him in and deceive us.

I went to an LDS hypnotherapist once who said that depression comes from being sad that our best friends were in Satan's group, and we miss them.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby AdamOndi » Wed 27 Jul, 2011 08:47 am

Momma Snider wrote:Kind of scary, actually.

I do hope the temple president told him no, we do not pray for Satan. I don't have any general authority words to back me up, but it seems to me that feeling sympathy for Satan is opening the door to let him in and deceive us.

I went to an LDS hypnotherapist once who said that depression comes from being sad that our best friends were in Satan's group, and we miss them.


He said the unspecified temple president said, "Well, I'm not sure I have a good answer for that." Our teacher took that to mean that maybe he can do that, while I took it to mean, "That is a stupid question, and you're clearly letting yourself drown in deep waters when you don't have a good grasp of the basics of the Gospel, but I don't know how to tell you that while still being nice."

Lady C, I typically mentally skip his classes by burying my face in my iPad, usually by reading through the actual lesson and then playing games. However, I doubt that I will need to worry about it much longer. I don't think the Bishopric is going to let this continue.
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby AdamOndi » Mon 01 Aug, 2011 07:09 am

The False Doctrine teacher has been released and replaced. He has now been called as the Cubmaster, which is a little disconcerting as well. But since I don't have any kids in Cub Scouts yet, I don't have to worry about it for a while.
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby SDR » Mon 01 Aug, 2011 09:05 am

Far be it from me to tell that bishop what to do (so I won't) but just an observation: In one of my student wards at BYU I had a calling to deal with hymn books, placing them in seats before sacrament meeting & picking them up afterward. Didn't require a lot of gospel knowledge, no prep time was required.

I realize there isn't as much need for this particular calling in a regular ward where hymn books get to stay in the chapel all the time. Maybe programs need to be distributed...

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Mon 01 Aug, 2011 02:02 pm

Our ward has a Chair Brigade for people who need callings.

We had a couple of good talks yesterday, overall, but one of them was starting to make the bishop nervous. He was telling about someone he had shared the gospel with, and he told way too many details about what they were doing wrong that made being baptized difficult, and more about what went wrong in the marriage 10 years later.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 08:55 am

Yesterday in my daughter's ward a young man was talking about the Book of Mormon, and how you read it and know it's true. Then he said you can just look at it and know it's true, smell it and know it's true, or taste it and know it's true. And with that, he picked up the copy on the podium and LICKED IT.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby iamroch » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 03:44 pm

Yesterday my Home Teaching companion bore his testimony. He and his father are zany conspiracy nuts. So he bore his "testimony" that the constitution isn't just hanging by a thread, it's not being followed. The government is the Gadianton robbers getting us in debt, etc., etc. He went on for several minutes and the Spirit fled from the room. It was so uncomfortable. He may or may not be right, but Testimony meeting is not the place for political diatribes.
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Momma Snider
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 05:32 pm

I'll bet the bishop was squirming.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby SDR » Mon 08 Aug, 2011 10:27 pm

iamroch wrote:Testimony meeting is not the place for political diatribes.


Dang straight. That's what elder's quorum is for.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby AdamOndi » Tue 09 Aug, 2011 08:41 am

Momma Snider wrote:I'll bet the bishop was squirming.


The bishop should have gotten up, stopped the guy, and then politely reminded everyone that Testimony Meeting is for testimonies, not for diatribes.

An update on the now former Gospel False Doctrine teacher in my ward: since he can no longer broadcast his weird comments and questionable ideas throughout all of the second hour, he tries to send them out in concentrated bursts of false doctrine during Elders Quorum lessons. There are two investigators who currently attend our EQ meetings, and I kept cringing for the missionaries every time this guy raised his hand and opened his mouth.
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby iamroch » Tue 09 Aug, 2011 02:57 pm

AdamOndi wrote:The bishop should have gotten up, stopped the guy, and then politely reminded everyone that Testimony Meeting is for testimonies, not for diatribes.


I was wondering if they were going to stop him. Our High Councilman and one of the Stake presidency were on the stand and were watching very intently.

I am in a personal dilemma, because he is my home teaching companion and he often starts to delve into that stuff during our visits. A couple of months ago it was his turn to teach the lesson. He hadn't prepared, but he had been watching a Jehovah's Witness or Seventh-Day Adventist TV channel and the preacher talked about not eating blood. So he decided that was the lesson that he would teach and read an Old Testament verse about it. To a family with a 3-, 5-, and 6-year old kids. I guess I should have said something to him, but chickened out.

I talked with the rest of the EQ presidency and the next Sunday one of the counselors gave a quick lesson on home teaching: keep it short, stick to the First Presidency message, etc. Of course, he was not there.

So I didn't want to bring him with me before, but now I really don't. I have two families that have struggled with activity and all three have young children. The worst part is that this dilemma is my own making, I volunteered to be his companion so nobody else had to. I have known him for several years and thought I could deal with his off beat views, but now it's really inappropriate comments and such.

I don't want to bring him, but what is my responsibility? Do I try to help him magnify his calling and risk alienating our families? Or do I try to protect the families and not give him the opportunity to serve?
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Ryan Reeder » Tue 09 Aug, 2011 06:21 pm

RE: iamroch

This would certainly be one for the easier said than done category, but my opinion is that the counsel contained in Doctrine and Covenants 42:88-89 may be the best course:

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.
89 And if he or she confess not thou shalt deliver him or her up unto the church, not to the members, but to the elders. And it shall be done in a meeting, and that not before the world.


Hopefully, he won't be offended by this approach, but it could happen. Still, he ought to be made aware that his comments are inappropriate--and it may be that he is unaware of this. From what you've described though, they are inappropriate, and offensive to his audience, and if he doesn't realize this on his own, then someone needs to point it out to him. I don't say it's an easy thing to have to do, but in my opinion, considering what you've said, the other options, and what you've tried already, it may be the best course of action.

I also don't think that he should be deprived of the privilege and potential blessings that come through home teaching if he's willing to participate.

Good luck!
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby iamroch » Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:30 am

Thanks for the comment Ryan.

I spoke with the bishop last night and he had a different side than I had thought of, which leads me to some compassion for him. He has serious health issues (kidney failure) and financial difficulties and a stressful home life (he and his wife take care of his grumpy grandmother in their home) and the bishop siad that it may be an outward manifestation of the dark thoughts he is experiencing. I never had thought of it that way before. But the bishop is planning to meet with him to see how he is doing.

We also were reorganizing home teaching last night and have an odd number, so I was assigned a new companion and he is not assigned for now, but will be when we have a change in the number. So for now I guess it's not really an issue.

Last night was a reminder of how far I have to go to have Christlike love for my fellow man.
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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Wed 10 Aug, 2011 11:56 am

Don't you hate that? I keep being reminded almost every day how far I have to go...
But I'm glad the bishop is aware of this brother, and hopefully he can get some help.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Tue 23 Aug, 2011 11:10 am

I've been feeling really sorry for our bishop lately. My brother has started going to church again, and so has Walter, the former renter with whom Paul had the altercation that led to two weeks in jail for Paul. (You'd think that means Paul was the perpetrator, but I've had my own experiences with the irrationality that is Walter, so it's about even.) Anyway, the first week they were both there, Walter sat down two rows behind where we sit, and the bishop kindly asked him to move to the other side, which he did. But the stinkeyes were flying back and forth across the chapel every week, and they got even stinkier after Walter and his wife were given callings as ward family history workers. Paul just can't believe that they would have callings when he doesn't. None of them is spry enough to take care of hymnbooks or set up chairs, unfortunately. And I would hate to see any of them assigned to be greeters, since they all three are creepy-looking.

I think the bishop has done a really good job of not taking sides, but making both parties feel that he is sympathetic.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby RenLass » Tue 23 Aug, 2011 11:00 pm

And I would hate to see any of them assigned to be greeters, since they all three are creepy-looking.

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Re: Curiously inappropriate things seen at church

Postby Momma Snider » Mon 12 Sep, 2011 09:33 am

I looked down from choir practice yesterday morning and saw my son and my brother arriving at about the same time. Paul reached out to shake Chris' hand, and Chris made a face like he thought Paul had just sneezed into his hand or something. I asked later what that was about, and he just said the look on Paul's face made him think it was some kind of prank.

Walter's wife was there, wearing jeans and a Tides Church t-shirt. That's one of the Mormon-hatin' churches in the area. It wasn't as inappropriate on her as it would have been on anyone else, though, because she may actually not know there's a difference.


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