General Conference Thoughts

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Matt
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Postby Matt » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 11:29 am

What do they want? A printed/verbalized retraction of her talk based on their misconceptions and misunderstandings?
Isn't the amount of fuss being raised over this talk prima facie evidence that perhaps her talk contained elements which were easy to misunderstand? Maybe they'd just like a clarification that demonstrates that these are, in fact, misunderstandings.
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Eric's Fat Brother
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Postby Eric's Fat Brother » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 12:01 pm

Matt wrote:Isn't the amount of fuss being raised over this talk prima facie evidence that perhaps her talk contained elements which were easy to misunderstand?

I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that link is probably a small part misunderstanding the talk and a large part not agreeing with basic principles of the Church. I base that on the fact that they also somehow "misunderstood" the Book of Mormon and the "Family Proclamation."

I'm sure some people misunderstood Sister Beck's talk, but no talk will ever be universally understood. Some people will hear someone say "I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches" and come away thinking it was official doctrine that turkey and cheese sandwiches are of the devil. Sister Beck didn't say anything new, and I thought she said what she said pretty well. As lots of people have pointed out, of course not everything she said applies equally to everyone, and it is up to each person to come to an understanding of what they can gain from the talk.

I think InO is a good example. She is forced by circumstances beyond her control to be the main breadwinner in her family. That means that there are certain specific aspects of the talk that won't apply so much to her. But the overall message of the talk -- living up to your responsibilities as a mother -- applies just as much to her as to anyone else. In her case, her responsibilities as a mother involve a lot of things that, in a "perfect world," might not fall under her jurisdiction. But because she IS a "mother who knows," she makes whatever sacrifices she needs to make for the welfare of her family.

So while I understand how someone whose personal situation is a little different might be touchy about the talk (because those people generally deal a lot with well-meaning dummies), I think the talk was pretty well-constructed to say what she meant to say.
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Card
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Postby Card » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 12:21 pm

Hmmm... well, I just briefly scanned the list for people I knew, and I only recognized one name. I don't know why his wife didn't sign the list. Anyway, I am curious now to know why he signed it and plan to ask him. He and his wife are both very educated and work together. His kids are really smart and well-behaved. I know that he is very anti-war, but to me, that whole stripling warriors part of it sounds like a huge tangent from the talk itself, so I can't imagine that being a primary reason to sign the petition.

I am very amazed at the lengths that people are going to protest the talk.

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Momma Snider
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Postby Momma Snider » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 12:49 pm

I, like probably every other woman in the Church, have often felt that I didn't measure up. My favorite talks are always the ones about tithing and being nice to our families, because those are the things I'm good at. Just about every other topic falls into the category of Needs Improvement. But there has to be a standard, an ideal. If issues are not addressed by the Church leaders, it begins to appear that those issues are not important, and the standard lowers.

Also, for every talk like this that makes us feel less than perfect, there are countless talks at the Women's Broadcast and stake Women's Conferences that tell us how good we are. Are we watching or at least reading those?

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Postby RenLass » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 01:45 pm

Also, for every talk like this that makes us feel less than perfect, there are countless talks at the Women's Broadcast and stake Women's Conferences that tell us how good we are. Are we watching or at least reading those?
Exactly! Yes, I have an ideal priesthood holding husband, but I came from a very un-ideal non-member dysfunctional household and I have a lot of "issues" I have had to deal with in life. I DO understand how some talks can feel like a punch in the stomach. What I don't understand is the response to punch back! (Feel like punching back? Sure! Doing it? I don't get it)

InO has the right attitude - pray about it, find understanding from the God who allowed that talk to be given in a general conference and who knew the consternation it would cause. Find out from HIM what it means for You.

But Momma is right about the hundreds of uplifting, you are doing fine sort of talks that have been given. They are there in every conference. The truth is, if you don't feel fine, you are less likely to give credence to those messages and give more weight to the one message that you are afraid of. And I think that fear is a large part of it. What if SIster Beck is right? What if greater efforts at cleanliness really was important? (In which case, I have some repenting to do) What if her talk is really a call to repentance for me in some way? What if? Scary thought.
Isn't the amount of fuss being raised over this talk prima facie evidence that perhaps her talk contained elements which were easy to misunderstand? Maybe they'd just like a clarification that demonstrates that these are, in fact, misunderstandings
No, I think the amount of fuss being raised is evidence of how too many members of the church don't really "feel" the whole good news thing of the restored gospel. They don't feel the personal connection to Jesus and God that would allow them to feel loved while accepting that perhaps they might need correction. They don't have the close personal relationship with Him that would send them to Him on their knees for understanding instead of out on the internet for justification. They may believe in Christ, but they don't believe he would want them to change, and they don't believe that he could help them make that change. You notice they don't say that they have prayed and fasted about this and know that it is not the right message for them. They just say it is not what they know.

I fear that we, as a people, (me included) are so caught up in the worlds viewpoint of happiness, healing, fullfilment, and accepting who we are that we forget our purpose for coming to earth was to become more like Heavenly Father, no matter how painful that may be. Trusting that the end result is eternal joy and love.

Too rare nowadays is the faith of the pioneer woman, told that polygamy was God's plan for his people at that time, horrified by something that culterally was unacceptable to her, and yet willing to submit her will to God and enter a polygamous marriage. Was that easy for them? But they did it, and they were and will be blessed for their trust and faith in God. Too rare today is the kind of faith that led people from their homes and countries and families and lifestyles to do what they believed was the will of their God no matter what the personal cost.

And that makes me sad.
When the devil reminds you of your past,
remind him of his future

RenLass
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Postby RenLass » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 02:01 pm

I have noticed that the closer I am to God, the more I pray and read my scriptures and attempt to fast, the more I write in my journal, and prepare for FHE, attend my meetings with an open heart, and ponder what I can do to be more like Father, the happier I am. I am less easily offended, my anti-depressants work better, I am less angry, more hopeful, more willing to trust, and reach out to others, more joyful, more accepting of trials, and better able to deal with them, and less likely to take them personally.

So why don't I do what I know will make me happier? Why do I allow myself to slowly become "too busy" to do what should be a priority. Why, when I can see me pulling away from God, when I can feel the apathy creep in, why don't I flee back to the safety of His arms? Why do I get angry with Him for the distance I now feel? Why do I have to be so fallably human?

I give thanks at times like these for good, faithful friends who set the example for me, I give thanks for habits that are so set that they won't let me stray too far, I give thanks for this message board that demands that I think about what I believe and who I want to be, I give thanks for sunny days that make me turn my face to sky to soak in the warmth and reminds my heart to do the same, and I give thanks for the incredible, enduring patience that God and Jesus have for me.
When the devil reminds you of your past,

remind him of his future

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fairyshasha
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Postby fairyshasha » Mon 26 Nov, 2007 03:27 pm

I know a woman whose name is very high on the list (so high I wonder -with no proof- if she helped write it). I used to be her visiting teacher. She had stopped coming to church about a year before. So she has not attended hardly at all for the last 3-4 years. Her husband still goes and takes the children. He is a very kind, soft spoken man who also has a very good job. She also has a very good job. They had one of the nicest homes in the ward and their kids had things that no one else did. She had started intellectualizing things. Faith was taken out of the equation. I think you need both. She was very nice and fun and I liked her a lot. Despite our relationship anytime anything was brought up about the gospel, even in gereral -she comepletely shut down. It was like talking to a wall. She never commented, it was as if she couldn't even see us. Once we changed the topic -she was back.

I wonder how many people on the list are like that? They are already offeneded before anyone says anything. One comment leads to a knee jerk reaction and an attempt to correct the church that has now "done something" they can point to as a direct offense (perhaps not for the first time). How much pride is involved that people can't be told -hey, you could be doing a little better. The men are told that all the time. No one writes a petition that says "if you think porn should be sanctioned by the church, please sign here." How many of those people really sustained the leaders anyway? I'm sure many of them do still go to church. But when they hear something that confuses or upsets them -are they looking for personal revelation? Or are they just happy to see a reason that justifies what they are already thinking/doing?

It's one thing to discuss and try to understand a talk. But efforts to try to "correct" the R.S. Pres or the 12...I think comes down to pride. They (the leaders) are also imperfect, but I trust their understanding of the gospel way over sister so and so -who never comes to church, or always makes some crazy comment. If they sustain the leaders, it's an odd choice to make. And if they don't, it's likely nothing would make them happy anyway.
I had a baby this year. Three girls total now!

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Lowdoggy Dogg
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Postby Lowdoggy Dogg » Wed 28 Nov, 2007 02:00 pm

Amen to RenLass and fairyshasha.


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