Tithing

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Card
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Re: Tithing

Postby Card » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 04:23 pm

Also, if I ever went on The Price Is Right and I won something cool in contestant's row, like an ipad, I would probably keep it.

And more for the gross vs net topic:

If you pay on gross, then that means that you have paid on the money that is being taken out for your social security and medicare. So then when you eventually take social security, do you then essentially double-pay tithing when you take the social security that is just a refund of what you already paid or do you keep track and pay only above what you had already put into social security?

And what if you get benefits at your job, like health insurance? Do you pay tithing on the value of the health insurance received?

What if you are self-employed with a lot of deductions. What do you pay on there?

Just some food for thought. I bet there are a hundred different ways that people pay, and I'm fine with that, except, I don't think the increase in net worth is a good one at all. That one seems mighty stingy with the Lord.

Also, my grand opinion on all of tithing: if I am liberal with the Lord, perhaps he will be liberal with me. If I am stingy with the Lord, perhaps he will be stingy with me. I am a big fan of paying a generous fast offering.

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Re: Tithing

Postby SDR » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 05:43 pm

I guess one could say if you worry about whether you're double paying tithe maybe you're being stingy. ;) {just kidding, really!}

Once upon a time when I was a wee little kid (if you can believe I was ever a wee little kid) I had received $1.50 in allowance (or at least I must have received $1.50, as I remember needing to pay 15 cents tithe). I didn't fully grasp how the system worked, and so rather than paying my 15 cents as tithe, I divided it as evenly as I could and gave a few cents to each of the categories on the tithe & offering slip then in use (pre-carbonless copies, back when they gave you a receipt a week or two later). It only seemed fair to give every category a little rather than starving most of them in favor of giving it all to one! :) I certainly hope that I'll be judged for my understanding and intent in what I did rather than not getting the details 100% correct.

But seriously, it seems to me that there are multiple reasons why we're told to tithe on our increase and not given an official definition of "increase". Ultimately it doesn't matter what we say we think about tithing or what carefully worded bits of logic we put forth to support one approach over another. Ultimately what matters is what is in our hearts: did we pay an amount we honestly felt was due as tithe cheerfully, or did we grudgingly figure out the least number of pennies we could get away with paying? I don't think I'm being stingy in computing my increase as I do, but if I am getting it wrong, I'm confident I'll be taught what I should have done some day and have an opportunity to repent of my transgression.

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Re: Tithing

Postby Momma Snider » Tue 11 Sep, 2012 07:00 pm

I have always paid on money gifts, but not on other gifts, like couches. I never really thought of doing that, and now I wonder, because I've been given a whole lotta couches over the years. But I agree with what Scott said, 100%.

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Re: Tithing

Postby Card » Wed 12 Sep, 2012 04:11 pm

SDR wrote:I guess one could say if you worry about whether you're double paying tithe maybe you're being stingy. ;) {just kidding, really!}


I think this is a good point, actually. Sometimes it does illustrate where your heart is.

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Re: Tithing

Postby Momma Snider » Wed 12 Sep, 2012 04:31 pm

I always feel funny when the question "Do I have to pay tithing on ___?" comes up, because it sounds stingy. I don't know how else to word it, though. Maybe just "Would you ___?"

When my dead brother was not yet dead, I kept trying to get him to pay tithing for the blessings he would receive if he did. He never would quite commit to it. But then his only income was disability payments, and I couldn't really decide if that was tithe-able income or not. I'm sure he would have received tithing blessings even if it wasn't expected, though, and that's what I was trying to get for him.

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Re: Tithing

Postby ImAdhis » Wed 12 Sep, 2012 09:12 pm

Card wrote:No worries. I was just trying to see if anyone had anything else to say. I expected at least someone to be pro-paying on the car proceeds, but I guess not.


ImAdhis wrote:I pay tax on gross, I always have a business to lower my tax liabilities, and I pay tithing on the things I sell. Maybe one of those answered the original question.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Card wrote:What if you are self-employed with a lot of deductions. What do you pay on there?

I pay tithing on money as it comes in, not at the end of the year when I'm totaling up my expenses and deductions. I'm not about to rip-off God, just Uncle Sam.
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Re: Tithing

Postby Card » Wed 12 Sep, 2012 09:34 pm

I didn't make the connection in the first one that you were talking about personal stuff, too.

Thanks for the clarification!

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Re: Tithing

Postby Lady Celtic » Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:09 pm

My dad always said that he'd already paid tithing on the cash gift, too, so you're not alone, even if it is outside the norm, Card.

The Hub, who works for the church, thinks we don't need to pay tithing on reimbursements, since they're *reimbursements* and not an increase. It still feels weird, though--it sure looks like an increase when they come in! But since the reimbursement is meant to cover gas and wear and tear on the car, I guess I can see it.

Fascinating discussion!
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Re: Tithing

Postby Momma Snider » Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:41 pm

I definitely think reimbursements are not tithe-able. But on the gift thing, how do you teach your kids to pay tithing on their allowance, if they don't have to pay because you already tithed on it? I'm not disagreeing here, because I would tend to think the same way if anyone ever gave me a cash gift, but I just wondered if allowance falls into the same category.

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Re: Tithing

Postby Eric's Fat Brother » Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:44 pm

Yeah, when it comes to kids, it's a lot more important to teach them the principles than to worry about whether it gets double paid. I don't generally agree with the whole "someone else already paid tithing on this" concept anyway, but especially with kids. Tithing is all about the individual, not about the history of the actual dollars. Do I have more money than I did a minute ago? Well then, I better pull out 10% for tithing.
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Re: Tithing

Postby SDR » Thu 13 Sep, 2012 01:54 pm

On the topic of not paying tithe on a gift because it was already tithed: What if the tithe was paid, but it was paid to a different church?

Note: The preceding is rhetorical. :)

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Re: Tithing

Postby Momma Snider » Thu 13 Sep, 2012 02:02 pm

You have to pay double in that case, Scott.

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Re: Tithing

Postby SDR » Thu 13 Sep, 2012 04:05 pm

{like}

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Re: Tithing

Postby Card » Tue 18 Sep, 2012 05:22 pm

So, for the allowance questions, I guess it would be up to you. I never received an allowance, so I've never really thought about it before. We did have other ways to earn money, and in those occasions I definitely paid on those, as they qualified as income in my mind. And earning money from your parents for various tasks are probably like allowances/gifts in a lot of people's minds. I always thought of an allowance as just a division of the whole, just like how some people have spouse allowances where they divide part of their budget to be used on whatever they want. In that case, it would seem weird to tithe on an allowance to me. But like you all said, it just depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the allowance.

And if they pay tithing to another church, I consider that tithing still. (Answering in spite of it being rhetorical.)

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Re: Tithing

Postby Eric's Fat Brother » Wed 19 Sep, 2012 09:14 am

In my mind, there are two main reasons to give kids an allowance: 1) to teach them how to handle and manage money (including the satisfaction of buying something you want with your own money), and 2) to teach them how to pay tithing. Teenagers are pretty bad at learning things like "now you have to give away a bunch of your money," so I think it's important for them to have learned that long before they're old enough to get a job and actually earn their own money.
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Re: Tithing

Postby Momma Snider » Wed 19 Sep, 2012 11:50 am

I think so, too. Funny that Jeff and I would have the same opinion on a child-rearing issue, huh? When my kids were teenagers, I would go to the bank once a month and get all the allowance money broken down into 10s and 5s and 1s (because they all got different amounts depending on what they were expected to pay for with it) to make it easier to take out their tithing immediately.

I've heard people say they don't believe in allowance because kids shouldn't be paid for doing chores. I agree with that, although I don't agree with the argument (said by a mom) that "No one pays ME to do my chores!" No, maybe you don't get a specific pay for a specific task, but you do have a little bit of discretionary money, or at least the hope that you could save up for something specific you want to buy.

There are so many different ways to do it, all with logical reasons, but I think ultimately kids do need to know they can't always just ask their parents when they want something. Saving up to buy something gives great satisfaction.

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Re: Tithing

Postby SDR » Wed 19 Sep, 2012 08:28 pm

If kids shouldn't be paid for doing chores, they *definitely* shouldn't be taught that money just comes to you for no reason at all.

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Re: Tithing

Postby Momma Snider » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 09:13 am

My philosophy on that was you do chores because you're part of the family, and you also get some spending money because you're part of the family.

But I don't see anything wrong with tying them together, either.

When I was a kid we went through a phase where my dad would put nickels in a jar for each of us every week, and if we misbehaved or didn't do our jobs, he'd take a nickel away. I think that worked well enough, while it lasted.

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Re: Tithing

Postby robcan2 » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 09:47 am

We don't give our kids an allowance, and they have certain chores they are expected to do because they are part of the family. But then we have additional jobs that they can do to earn money, and they pay tithing on that. It seems to work pretty well.
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Re: Tithing

Postby SDR » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 10:04 am

It's so obvious! From now on I will only work for members of the church that pay tithing and thus avoid it myself. GENIUS!

By which I mean, JUST KIDDING!


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